Gas_Buzzer
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Message Posted:
5/11/2008 10:45:57 AM
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Looks like "cc" posted an essay
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ccf_jeff
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5/10/2008 12:26:30 PM
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"esquared:
I hope your historical memory includes the fact that the US went off the gold standard back in the Nixon administration (1971 to be exact), and for the most part the US economy has weathered the vagaries of market bumps and grinds much better that the rest of the world. Look at who is buying up US securities and stocks: oil-producing monarchs and oligarchs. THEY have faith in the US$ whether anyone else does or not."
Sure "the US economy has weathered the vagaries of market bumps and grinds", though I'm not that sure we really did so better than the rest of the world. The rest of the world also has gone to a fiat money system as well, so that isn't really a very good benchmark to use as to whether we are better off printing money as we see fit vs. using money that has an inherent value as it does when using precious metals or is convertible thereto.
We really should be a lot better off now than then given the truly revolutionary advances that have been made in so many areas, such as genetics - ie food production, computerization which has dramatically improved productivity and also enhanced telecommunications and reduced the need for expensive and time consuming travel. The internet has also made drastic improvements in our lives and enhanced productivity.
We also have had tremendous advances in productivity within our lifetimes, with microwaves, faxes, computerized vehicles with much better fuel economy. Automobiles were an odditity when my grandparents got married and now families routinely have two or three of them. Even telephones, radios, and televisions are relatively recent inventions, as are dishwashers, washing machines and dozens of other time saving devices.
In some ways it's a wonder so many families struggle even here in the richest nation in the history of the world. Throughout much of the world, people still struggle to survive.
I don't think we can deem the U.S. experiment to disconnect the money supply from any objective standard of value just because it hasn't completely blown up in our face yet. Sometimes that type of catastrophe can take some time to unfold. There are certainly enough examples of other countries economies ruined by doing such things.
Holland and Argentina are perhaps less well known economic juggernauts whose economies collapsed when the bubble burst. History is full of others. We are not guaranteed to be a "world superpower" forever. Countries have risen and fallen throughout the centuries and we have no reason to suspect we are different than Rome or Spain or Germany or France or England who all were world leaders at one time.
Even though we haven't had the dramatic collapse like some, the value of the dollar has dropped pretty dramatically since 1971. I remember one of the articles on this site mentioning that oil was trading for $2 / barrel at some point in the '60s. The dollar used to be convertible at a rate of $35/ounce of gold. I think it's trading at $885/oz at the moment.
Brand new homes in the 1950s were selling for less than $10,000. Starter homes around here could be had for $5,000 to $6,000. Sure they didn't have central air, or as much electric power, but even if adjusted for that the prices were a small fraction of todays prices. They also used larger and better lumber, had plaster walls and in general were sturdier than more modern homes.
The bottom line is that we haven't had a catastrophe yet, though we do seem to be lurching from one financial crisis to another more rapidly now. First there was the savings and loan crisis when the government spent billions and billions to rescue the banks and the savings and loan industry. It seems each administration has at least one similar crisis that the experts fret could unravel the entire world economy and the various world banks scramble to try and keep things together. Unfortunately their fix for one crisis seems to usually precipitate a crisis in another area a few years hence.
I guess time will tell. Hang on for the ride.
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Gas_Buzzer
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Message Posted:
5/10/2008 9:02:12 AM
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Dollar lost strength again yesterday.
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JoeKR
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5/10/2008 1:20:58 AM
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Interesting how the stronger dollar reported here had no effect on the price of gas but today the weakening dollar is blamed for rising prices. But it's nice the journalists are saving gas - and shoe leather - by not going out to dig up the truth.
[Edited by: JoeKR at 5/10/2008 1:21:48 AM EST]
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nojsts
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 11:56:54 AM
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Today the dollar is reported waaker and oil is at $126.00/bbl.
There is no way things change that quickly.
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Kolinaa
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5/9/2008 11:07:11 AM
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we will all see what happens soon enough
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esquared
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5/9/2008 11:00:37 AM
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ccf_jeff writes, "Once the government disconnected the dollar from any underlying limits -- ie. being convertible into gold -- the dollar has no inherent value other than "the good faith of the U.S. Government"."
I hope your historical memory includes the fact that the US went off the gold standard back in the Nixon administration (1971 to be exact), and for the most part the US economy has weathered the vagaries of market bumps and grinds much better that the rest of the world. Look at who is buying up US securities and stocks: oil-producing monarchs and oligarchs. THEY have faith in the US$ whether anyone else does or not.
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RC_RACER
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5/9/2008 10:59:11 AM
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this is the trend that needs to continue, just as high gas prices affect everything we do in a bad way, a rising dollar will affect everything we do in a good way. Its nice to hear something positive on these articles for once.
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boniface4jesus
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Gary
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5/9/2008 10:58:15 AM
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Hey, that sounds good. Perhaps oil prices won't go up too much more. And then maybe gas prices would stop climbing.
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mailman79
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Atlanta
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:56:08 AM
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best of luck
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Aserdaten
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5/9/2008 10:54:12 AM
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This would seem like good news in the immediate future, unless perhaps you are an investor in Euros.
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sailormon
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5/9/2008 10:52:54 AM
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good post CCF JEFF!
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HoosierDaddyTX
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5/9/2008 10:48:25 AM
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A "pullback" on oil prices? Not as long as Exxon, Mobil, Shell, etc., have the King George and Crown Prince Cheney in their back pockets.
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akrebecca
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5/9/2008 10:47:56 AM
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Somehow I don't think the price of gas will drop (alot) if the value of the dollar goes up.
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ccf_jeff
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5/9/2008 10:47:54 AM
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Come on kingdick, the Republicans AND Democrats both share some responsibility in all of this as do we the voters who ultimately elect them, tell them what we want done and oversee their progress or lack thereof.
The *reason* the speculators are buying up oil, as well as most other commodities, is because the value of the dollar is rapidly dropping. A lot of that is because we the consumers have been demanding that our government "do something" about {fill in the blank}. The things the government has been doing costs money... engaging in wars, including the war on poverty, keeping interest rates low (by increasing the money supply), avoiding recession (by increasing the money supply), even pumping billions into developing alternative energy sources, hydrogen, solar, bio-fuels etc.
Once the government disconnected the dollar from any underlying limits -- ie. being convertible into gold -- the dollar has no inherent value other than "the good faith of the U.S. Government". If that "faith" in the dollar &/or the U.S. Government erodes the dollar could ultimately become as worthless as countless other fiat currencies have become in the past.
Hope we don't repeat any of the horror stories those other countries, some of whom had been world powers, endured. As history has repeatedly shown, it is quite possible, perhaps even probable that "fiat currencies" that had enjoyed favor become so worthless that wheelbarrows full cannot buy a loaf of bread, much less a gallon of gas. In post WWI Germany some people even used their currency to wallpaper homes. Life savings were lost overnight.
That is why speculators are dumping the dollar and trading them for tangible goods while they think it is still worth something. If it continues its slide or worse yet, drops into freefall we'll be looking back at $4 gas as "the good old days".
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GCL
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San Jose
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:45:05 AM
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It must be President Carter's fault - lol.
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NissanGirl
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:44:22 AM
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Go dollar, go!!!
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courier400
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:43:51 AM
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we are just screwed
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Chitowner
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:43:11 AM
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right the price just keeps climbing now at 125.00 a drum
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Chitowner
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:43:04 AM
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right the price just keeps climbing now at 125.00 a drum
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woos777
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:39:32 AM
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The change will be oil prices going upward a little slower.
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LukeIN
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5/9/2008 10:38:40 AM
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well the dollar is traded like everything eles...I know Wall Street tjust trades and speculate on the US dollar, selling it short for profits, I think its time Our goverment looks at Wall street and their practices...!
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Gerund1
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:35:07 AM
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Little changed?!!!! Gas is $124.7 today. Can you say OUCHIE!!!
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CyanSquirrel
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Virginia
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:34:42 AM
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Exchange rates are fickle things...
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Dancin
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5/9/2008 10:33:33 AM
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yeah, yeah, yeah. Variance, root cause analysis everywhere. It just is.
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ESHI
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:31:58 AM
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Come on dollar
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Brockvillian
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Ontario
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5/9/2008 10:29:20 AM
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Blame Bush!! He is the cause of the pathetic US Dollar. I do. ;)
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kingdick
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5/9/2008 10:27:02 AM
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-----------------------------------
Trade deficits lower the value of the dollar and raises the cost of gas
-----------------------------------
Walmart alone creates a trade deficit that approaches the oil trade deficit.
We should manufacture most goods here in the USA.
This would also reduce the fuel wasted in extra transportation cost.
-----------------------------------
Another form of destroy USA.
We can be our own worse enemy, our own personal GREED.
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The Walmart effect is a major reason why we are in this fuel crunch.
Send our jobs and money to china make them rich and up the demand for fuel.
-----------------------------------
We reduce our demand but china and india increase at a far greater rate.
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Anyone that buys walmart JUNK and thinks it is the same quality needs to do more thinking.
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They have also driven DOWN the Quality of almost all products in the name of profits.
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kingdick
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:23:54 AM
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-----------------------------------
In the many years before 2006 the Republicans control of our government did not foster increasing the supply of oil.
They also deregulated the markets which has allowed the Speculators freedom to RAISE the price of Crude with no regard to supply and demand.
Another bad thing that happened on their watch is all the Control of fuel to very few companies, no competition.
-----------------------------------
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kingdick
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5/9/2008 10:22:44 AM
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-----------------------------------
Because of Republican policies-
-----------------------------------
Inflation-Adjusted mid point Wages are 1/3rd what they were in 1980.
The Rich Republicans at the top are 1-2000 times richer at the expense of the middle class and poor.
-----------------------------------
They do not need bush's tax cut, they just hire illegal aliens and cut the wages for the middle class.
-----------------------------------
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w4kh
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5/9/2008 10:21:36 AM
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What could be strengthening the dollar now? Did "W" find a magic wand? See a Geni? Somebody say something that didn't get reported on the news?
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kingdick
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:20:51 AM
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Dollar stronger YEA like 2 cents
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McNasties
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5/9/2008 10:17:43 AM
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The Federal Reserve IOU paper (dollar) is about to be devalued.
Buy your wheelbarrows now. You'll need many to cart your worthless money around in to buy that six week old loaf of Chinese made bread.
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well2
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New Jersey
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:15:02 AM
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Hear hear Japsmith!!
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Japsmith
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Tacoma
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:13:23 AM
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Something has to change soon before something breaks, mainly our economy.
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jck667
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5/9/2008 10:04:31 AM
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As far as I know, crude oil is priced & traded in USD, so I fail to see how movement in the Euro exchange rate is going to affect the price of crude - except for the (probably minor) demand decreased caused by the Europeans having to pay marginally more for oil. You'll need to see considerably more strengthening of the dollar to cause this.
The nice thing about the weak dollar is that US exports now look quite attractive to the rest of the world. Oh, wait, I forgot, we don't actually make anything in this country anymore...
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CruisinLinda
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:03:34 AM
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If you read the short article, you will see that the dollar isn't strengthening, but the Euro's value droppe a bit because growth is slowing there. If we Americans spend less and save more--which means conserve, recycle and don't waste--we can strengthen the dollar even if our borrow-and-spend administration is out of control.
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Chazzer
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:02:16 AM
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That's a different tack!
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stevewwvu
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West Virginia
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:01:28 AM
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well i hope people cancel there vacations and stay home then watch the market we have to do something stay home and enjoy it dont drive or spend money then the rest of the world will suffer like we are the reason is if we dont buy things they dont make money because everything we buy is imported let them take it back we really dont need it
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Mooseman1
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 10:01:24 AM
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Everyone is feeling the crunch.
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rjoeh
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Michigan
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:59:37 AM
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Maybe the greed will be slowed by the cost of buying....
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tomok
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:59:19 AM
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-just more noise in the news-
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kanmandoo
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:58:07 AM
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I say 4.00 / 4.25 by the end of June.
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85XJ
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5/9/2008 9:57:25 AM
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Gasie1 said:
"Stronger dollar = High prices. Weaker dollar = High prices."
No, that's not quite right. It should be...
Stronger dollar = High prices. Weaker dollar = Higher prices.
Only my opinion. That and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee
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tobasco
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Los Angeles
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:54:47 AM
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Price it in Euros.
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sumthingstinks
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5/9/2008 9:51:40 AM
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oil up, gold up, commodities up. Dollar up? Doesn't make sense..I call BS Bloomberg.
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doulosx
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Columbus
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:50:43 AM
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Drill in ANWAR
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gasman50
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Portland
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5/9/2008 9:48:19 AM
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Old news
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trzeciak
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5/9/2008 9:47:07 AM
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Strong dollar? Show me.
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Somis1
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Message Posted:
5/9/2008 9:46:15 AM
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This is old news; crude went over $125 today.
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